Saturday 5 March 2016

BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF CATEGORIES YOU WILL FALL INTO



Ad.4 - BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF CATEGORIES YOU WILL FALL INTO

It seems that I’m classified but I have no idea what it may mean. The question is – how to interpret my category? 

I will show few examples.

1. First example kit of one of my relatives



He is put in category:  
6. ...>Z282>Z280>CTS1211-B>YP1019-A-x (YP4969,YP4970 not tested, Big Y needed)
What does it tell me?
- he is confirmed YP1019, so no YP1019 is recommended.
- by being YP1019 he is also certainly CTS1211, Z280, Z282 etc.
- “-x” means that he is unclustered (not undoubtedly close and fitting to any other member under YP1019 by his Y-STR results). –x1, -x2, -y would mean that  his belonging to YP1019 is likely but still uncertain. Further testing would be necessary.
- his belonging to known sub-branches of YP1019 (YP4969 and YP4970) is possible but they aren’t available for order as single SNPs yet. So, they aren’t either tested or recommended.
 

TESTING POSSIBILITIES:
  - only Big Y is available to refine classification. It’s the best thing you can order, because it tests existing SNPs and searches for new ones.


2. Second example – totally random kits belonging to project members.

One of the numerous cases here – kits placed in some umbrella-category like: 
4. ..>Z282>PF6155>M458>PF7521>CTS11962(?)>L1029(?) (67 STRs and Big Y or R1a-Backbone SNP Pack needed)


What does it tell me?
- they are probably L1029 according to innovations found in their Y-STR results
- by being L1029, they are also CTS11962, PF7521, M458, PF6155 etc.

TESTING POSSIBILITIES
:
a) R1a-Backbone SNP Pack – this pack tests dozens of SNPs under M458 (and L664, Z93 etc.) and it’s nice to refine classification (although it tests only some of the known SNPs)
b) 67 Y-STR markers – it may be recommended for those who did only 12 markers, to possibly get some matches of genealogical relevance (although it’s complicated in fact). In my opinion, Y-STR markers in bigger amount aren’t really useful in case of M458 and some certain other branches.
If you have done at least Y-37 and you are placed under those popular branches under M458 – don’t bother yourself with ordering Y-67 (or more) unless you really want to.
In most cases, it’s much better to order an SNP Pack than additional Y-STR markers.
c) Big Y – as stated previously – the best way to get an idea about your placement. You get very precise sub-branch, your own SNPs. There is only one drawback – it’s expensive

Other examples of such umbrella-categories from our project:


 Similar case. Results are placed in category: 6. ...>Z282>Z280>CTS1211-x1 Unclustered (CTS1211 not tested, Big Y or Z280 SNP pack needed) and 6. ...>Z282>Z280>CTS1211-y Unclustered (CTS1211 not tested, more STRs and Big Y or Z280 SNP pack needed)


What does it tell me?
- results probably belong to CTS1211 branch according to their Y-STRs but it’s not possible to guess their further placement under CTS1211. Some further actions are needed.

TESTING POSSIBILITIES:
a) CTS1211 (or Z280) – order one of those SNPs and if it comes positive – order Z280 SNP Pack
b) you may order Z280 SNP Pack directly and as a result - got nice placement under CTS1211 for less.
NOTICE: It can be risky but the risk often pays off. There is often a low possibility that those results (which are not confirmed Z280) belong to some really rare Z93 or Z284 sub-branches due to the homoplasy of Y-STR markers. We certainly do our best to minimize such risk but some cases are “hopeless”.
c) as always, Big Y is the best. In such case (unlike in case of SNP Pack), it doesn’t matter if you in fact belong to a different branch. Just pay and wait.

 
3. Third example kits that are not classifiable and not clustering

 Results are placed in category: Z1. Unassigned basic 37 STRs results [predicted or tested as M417+] (more STRs, R1a-Backbone SNP Pack or Big Y needed) PLEASE CONTACT ADMIN . Probably many of those people got discouraged by the lack of Y-STR matches, due to rarity of their Y-STRs or inconclusive matches. It’s a nonsense, since Y-STRs are sometimes unbelievably unstable and you may not match a person to which you are related in the last 500-1000 years ! You still may find (and will find) some related project members but you may have to spend on testing slightly more than usual.



What does it tell me?
- you are surely predicted as positive to SNP called M417. Don’t be happy, most of R1a bearers (like 98-99%) are positive to it.
- you may belong to some relatively rare (or very rare) sub-branch
- you probably belong to a relatively common sub-branch but in your case, Y-37 isn’t enough to make prediction (some Z93, Z284 and Z280 branches are quite close to each other at Y-37).

TESTING POSSIBILITIES:
a) Y-STR markers - That’s the case when you actually may easily order more Y-STRs and it shouldn’t be a total waste of money.
b) R1a-Backbone SNP Pack – the best value-for-money ratio in this case. Highly helpful but you may need further testing if you actually fall under Z280 or Z284.
c) Big Y – I won’t repeat myself. It will solve all your problems but it’s costly. You may also give great contribution in refining whole tree if you belong to a rare, early offshoot of some branch.

4. Fourth example kits that are partially classifiable and not clustering.

Mostly placed under: Y. Unknown. M417+ [L664- M458-, Z284- predicted] (Big Y or R1a-Backbone SNP pack needed) but also under other “Y. Unknown” categories like Y. Unknown. M417+ [L664- Z284- predicted] (Big Y or R1a-Backbone SNP pack needed) etc. Many of those people are also discouraged by the lack of close matches but for the same reason as before – it’s a nonsense.



What does it tell me?
- you are surely predicted as positive to SNP called M417. Don’t be happy, most of R1a bearers (like 98-99%) are positive to it.
- you are almost certainly not M458, Z284 and L664. But you may still be located under CTS4385, Z283, Z282, Y2395, PF6155, Z280, Z93 etc.etc. Do I have to state all of the possibilities?
- you may belong to some relatively rare (or very rare) sub-branch

TESTING POSSIBILITIES:
a) Y-STR markersNOT RECOMMENDED,  ALREADY USELESS
b) R1a-Backbone SNP Pack – the best value-for-money ratio in this case. Highly helpful but you may need further testing if you actually fall under Z280 or some other branches.
c) Big Y – It will solve all your problems but it’s costly. You may also give great contribution in refining whole tree if you belong to a rare, early offshoot of some branch.


4. Fifth example kits that are not classifiable but clustering.

Placed in categories “Yx” (where “x” is a number. For instance: Y1. Irish cluster Y1, Z280-, predicted M417+ L664- M458- Z284- (Big Y or R1a-Backbone SNP pack needed).That’s a rare situation, where project members make cluster but neglect further testing. 



So, here we go again.

What does it tell me?
- member of a cluster tested Z280 but it went negative
- you are surely predicted as positive to SNP called M417. Don’t be happy, most of R1a bearers (like 98-99%) are positive to it.
- you are almost certainly not M458, Z284 and L664. But you may still be located under CTS4385, Z283, Z282, Y2395, PF6155, Z280, Z93 etc.etc. Do I have to state all of the possibilities?
- you may belong to some relatively rare (or very rare) sub-branch

TESTING POSSIBILITIES:
a) Y-STR markersNOT RECOMMENDED, ALREADY USELESS
b) R1a-Backbone SNP Pack – the best value-for-money ratio in this case. Highly helpful but you may need further testing if you actually fall under Z93 or some other branches.
c) Big Y – It will solve all your problems but it’s costly. You may also give great contribution in refining whole tree if you belong to a rare, early offshoot of some branch.

15 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. What does it mean to have a negative SNP?

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  3. 6. ...>Z282>Z280>CTS1211>YP343>YP340*-x1 (Big Y or Z280 SNP pack needed) not sure what the asterisk means?

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    1. Log into your account. Under myFTDNA open the sub-menu under Y-DNA and click on "Haplotree & SNPs." Use your browser to search for YP340. You will see that there are currently 5 additional subdivisions of YP340 listed in the tree. The asterisk stands for YP340 plus possibly all those subdivisions. At least, that's what I think is correct.... Those are presumably tested for or distinguished by ordering the Z280 SNP pack as suggested.

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  4. Yes the lack of matches is very discouraging

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    1. I had no matches above Y-25 but did Big Y along with my match at Y-12 and I'm perfectly happy about the outcome :)

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  5. I had no matches at any Level of testing (I did 37 markers) so rare branches are boring but I encourage the others to do big y

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  6. 7. ...>Z280>Z92>Y4459*-B-x (YP617,YP5520 not tested; Big Y and 111 STRs needed)

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. What does the *-B-x mean?
      And doesn't Big Y inklude everything, do I need 111 STR too?

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    3. Hi, it means that you form a cluster within Y4459 with at least one other project participant. -x is for the use of project staff, usually means undertested results. Since you've ordered Big Y test some time ago, we will change this category accordingly, remove "-x". You won't need 111 STRs when you order additional analysis of your Big Y raw data at YFull.com - it will give you ~500 Y-STRs, place on a tree and other interesting features. See more here: https://yfull.com/

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. I see... X5. Unknown lines under lab procedure (Big Y)
    What does it mean?

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  9. Looks like this project has died...

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